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Episode 74

3 In 1..Its The Coaches Corner

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About this episode

Welcome to another episode of Treat Your Business with Katie Bell! I’m Katie, your host, and today we’ve got an incredibly insightful discussion lined up. We’re diving into the world of leadership, hiring, and what truly makes a great leader tick.

In this episode, I’m joined by Nichola Page and Philippa Aldridge as we unpack some of the most common mistakes businesses make when hiring new team members. We’ll also delve into the importance of aligning values over skills, the financial planning behind hiring, and the essential role of effective onboarding


  1. Hiring for Values: We stress the significance of hiring based on values rather than just skills. A mismatch in values can spell trouble for team cohesion and morale.
  2. Financial Planning: Nichola shares insights into the importance of financial planning for hiring. Understanding the return on investment (ROI) from a new team member is crucial for business growth.
  3. Onboarding: We highlight the common mistake of neglecting proper onboarding for new hires. Making them feel valued and connected from day one is essential for long-term success.
  4. Leadership Qualities: We explore what makes a great leader. From vision to care for people and the ability to listen and empower, we discuss the traits that set exceptional leaders apart.
  5. Personal Experiences: Each of us shares stories of leaders who’ve made a lasting impact on our professional lives, offering valuable lessons for aspiring leaders.

Key Takeaways:

  • Prioritise values over skills when hiring.
  • Understand the financial implications and ROI of hiring.
  • Invest time in effective onboarding for new team members.
  • Great leaders possess vision, empathy, and the ability to empower.
  • Learn from both good and bad leadership experiences to shape your own leadership style.

Thank you for tuning in to this enlightening episode of Treat Your Business. If you’re a business owner looking to enhance your leadership skills and build a high-performing team, we’re here to support you. Reach out to us to learn more about our transformational coaching programmes.

Stay tuned for our next episode where we’ll be tackling the topic of spring cleaning in your business to boost profitability. You won’t want to miss it!


This podcast is sponsored by the team at HMDG


  • 0:00-Introduction and Setting the Scene
  • 9:23-Importance of Values in Hiring
  • 16:37-Skills vs. Experience
  • 21:46-Planning Costs and Return of Revenue
  • 22:32-Mistakes in Team Building
  • 23:44-Onboarding and First Impressions
  • 25:23-Characteristics of Great Leadership
  • 35:35-Conclusion and Call to Action


Treat Your Business EP74

[00:00:00] Katie Bell: Steve Jobs once said, Great things in business are never done by one person. They are done by a team of people. Teamwork is the fuel that propels ordinary individuals towards extraordinary achievements. And together, you can go beyond the limits of your own individual capabilities. Now you will have noticed the last three episodes have been all about team this month.

[00:00:23] Katie Bell: From deciding who and when to hire, how to hire and then how to lead the people that we hire so they stick around and excel in your clinic. We are rounding this team series off nicely with a brand new initiative. It’s been about team, so guess what? I’ve brought some of my team along. So welcome to the coach’s corner where the champions of strategy, numbers and mindset come together.

[00:00:50] Katie Bell: Over a coffee to share our powerful insights into building a winning team in your clinic.

[00:00:56] Katie Bell: Welcome to the Treat Your Business podcast with Katie Bell. I am Katie, and this is the place to learn the strategies, tactics, tools, and mindset needed. To build your clinic or studio into a business that gives you the time, money, energy and fulfillment you want and deserve. My team and I work every day with overwhelmed and exhausted clinic owners like you to shift them from a business that is a huge time and energy drain and is not giving them the income they want to confident clinic owners that are making money, saving money and getting time back in their lives.

[00:01:27] Katie Bell: So if this sounds like something you want, let’s dive in. This podcast is sponsored by HMDG, the leading digital marketing agency for the Clinicare is in the U. K.

[00:01:36] Katie Bell: So get ready to be inspired, everybody. Get ready to be motivated and equipped with the tools you need to elevate your team to new heights. And I am really excited to introduce Nicola, our COO. Think all things operations and finance when it comes to Nick. And Philippa, our fabulous success mindset coach.

[00:01:55] Katie Bell: And me. From an owners and leaders perspective, ladies, a huge welcome. Thank you. Exciting. So let’s dive straight in and talk about what we are seeing going on right now in our industry when it comes to teams. So what we’re hearing from our clients on the coaching programs, and let’s just explore those challenges.

[00:02:17] Katie Bell: So people listening to this. I guess feel like they’re not alone. They feel like that there’s lots of people struggling with this sort of stuff and it’s normal and it’s okay. And there’s things that we can do about it. So Nick, if you don’t mind, I’m going to come to you first. What’s some of the things that you hear consistently?

[00:02:35] Nichola: So one of the big things is that the owner of the business is becoming the bottleneck of it. at the moment. So there are things that either they no longer want to do, all the mundane stuff that they don’t want to do, or that they’re trying to grow their business and therefore they need other people in their team to help them do that.

[00:02:55] Nichola: So for them, they’re frustrated because they can’t do everything, not that they want to do everything, They need great people around them. They don’t know how to find great people. And also there’s that frustration for those that already have team in place is that for a lot of people, they’re actually paying their team more than they are paying themselves.

[00:03:17] Nichola: So they’re giving away a lot of their money for team. Now we have to pay for team, but we also need to get the balance right. So that’s the kind of thing they want to grow. They know they need team to do that. They may not be able to see at the moment how they can afford to do that. And if they have got team, it’s costing them a fortune and they don’t know how to even start to change that.

[00:03:39] Katie Bell: Yeah, and I guess that what I always hear, Nick, and we talk about this a lot, don’t we, is that the knowing is the key. The knowing the numbers behind, you might be paying them X amount, but what are you getting in return? Absolutely. If you don’t know that, That becomes really difficult to ultimately performance manage those people.

[00:03:59] Nichola: Look, when you bring team members in, it’s an investment into your business. It’s not really a luxury. It is a need for team in order for your business to grow and for you to have that balance in your life that you want. So it’s not just about you doing everything, but obviously by investing in team, there’s a cost to it.

[00:04:21] Nichola: And yes, it’s not all about making tons and tons of money for everybody, but your team member needs to be able to generate you revenue into your business, whether that’s directly or indirectly. So whenever the cost is of having that person working within your business, you need to have a plan of how are you going to recoup that money?

[00:04:45] Nichola: What’s the return going to be? Because then everybody stays happy. And you get to build the business that you want, but also you have the life that you need and not just feel like you’re the busiest person in your business. Everybody else is being paid well and you’re not taking out of your business what you want from it.

[00:05:04] Nichola: So it’s about getting that, for me, that strategically looking at this team member is a cost to me. They’re an amazing asset. When you get it right, but you’ve got to make sure that you’re planning to use that team member in the right way to get your return. Does that make sense?

[00:05:23] Katie Bell: Yeah, it makes loads of sense.

[00:05:24] Katie Bell: And I think that, that phrase that you said right at the beginning was about bottlenecking in your business. And we see this a lot. Don’t we hold on to all of these tasks that we call like the tasks that we are competent or incompetent at. We’re not excellent and it’s not in our zone of genius as you would say, Philippa.

[00:05:41] Katie Bell: But we, for some reason, we feel like. We have to hold on to them, we have to keep doing all of those things. That is one of the biggest, I think, things that I want people to really think about, is that to create, to be a great leader and to have a team of people around you who are doing great things, you have got to have the time to invest in those people.

[00:06:02] Nichola: Yeah.

[00:06:03] Katie Bell: You’ve got to follow a process. You’ve gotta, you’ve gotta be able to nurture them and hire well and when you hire and you follow a process and then you nurture them, that takes your time. So you’ve gotta let go of some of this shit to be able to allow yourself that, that time. To go and then support your greater team.

[00:06:20] Nichola: Yeah, you have. But you also, I’m always going to come back to strategy, of course, but you, it needs to be a thought out process in my opinion. It’s, you might want to get rid of a, let’s say you want to. There are things falling through the cracks because you’re not great admin, you absolutely hate doing all the admin, so therefore it doesn’t get done, things don’t get followed up on.

[00:06:44] Nichola: There could be a risk of just saying, just outsource that then, get a VA or get somebody in to do all of that without thinking how much will that cost and what will I do as the owner now with my time that is going to allow the business revenue to continue to grow and that now cost not be a factor that starts to make you almost resent having somebody in your business that you’re having to pay.

[00:07:10] Nichola: Sure. You’ve got to, you’ve got to have this joined up thinking in terms of planning, but also like you said, there’s a lot that goes into finding the right person that’s a good fit for you. Often you can put square pegs into round holes just because they’ve always been with you maybe, or they’re an amazing person, but they may, you may be putting an amazing person into the wrong place, the wrong position, and they’re, and therefore actually they’re not going to be able to flourish and do what they need to do just because somebody’s nice doesn’t mean to say they can do the job that you want them to do.

[00:07:46] Nichola: So there’s so much that goes into it.

[00:07:48] Katie Bell: Philippa, what about you? What are your insights?

[00:07:52] Philippa: Okay. In terms of my insights, it is, there’s a lot about the business owners that we tend to work with are control enthusiasts. Yes. And it is about, and so therefore from a mindset point of view, it is the mindset of being able to relinquish control and what that means to different parts of self.

[00:08:16] Philippa: And. It’s then working around that, what control means to you. The idea of relinquishing control can obviously feel out of control, and that can create a lot of anxiety. But also within that, there’s also the other level that we hear a lot of people saying, but I don’t know how to manage people. I don’t want to be that person.

[00:08:39] Philippa: And. We obviously talk about being a leader rather than the management necessarily. So there’s a mindset shift there that has to happen to become a leader. And there is also the, from a mindset point of view, what’s left over from lots of people have had experiences within the NHS that then have an impact on their mindset about what managing people or leading people looks like as well.

[00:09:05] Philippa: So we don’t want to be out of control. We don’t want to be a certain way. We don’t think we’re going to be able to do it because there’s obviously, their experience so far of leaders as managers may not be a great one, but also there’s a trust thing here as well. It’s about being able to trust people and being able to trust people with, which for a lot of people has, they’ve built a business which has inadvertently become their creative baby.

[00:09:34] Philippa: And the problem is when we refer to our business as our baby, we then become so protective. Oh, I’m going off on a tangent. I was going to, I get over excited about this. Yes. It’s

[00:09:44] Nichola: all relevant. Go true. Yeah.

[00:09:46] Philippa: It’s all relevant. And the and so the mindset stuff that I see, the main things are about being a control enthusiast.

[00:09:52] Philippa: Yes. And that idea of relinquishing control. The definition of what a manager or a leader of people, right? The mindset around that is. It’s just, for lots of them, it’s not actually true. When we dig into it, what they actually know is not the truth. It’s not what is true about being a manager or a leader.

[00:10:11] Philippa: It’s just they’ve never been shown other examples. Yes. And also that trust element of being able to trust other people with something that they’ve created into this baby. And they don’t, And you talking about the bottleneck, Nick, is that they’ve got themselves stuck in a familiar pattern and behavior that has now become this habit and their story and their programming, which then to be able to move to something else for their ego is such a massive change that it creates so much stress, so much anxiety that actually for a part of them, it’s easier to stay where they are, but actually that’s not giving them the business that helps them to thrive.

[00:10:50] Philippa: So we then obviously work on that a lot.

[00:10:54] Katie Bell: And I think this goes back, when we start working with business owners, they’re usually time poor, they’re usually pretty exhausted, they’re usually burnt out, they’re usually on a hamster wheel, they’ve got no head space, they’ve got almost no energy left for these people.

[00:11:07] Katie Bell: I think I always talk about the ripple effect, and I imagine myself as the leader, as the person in the centre of the circle, if you imagine. And then the circle around me are my team, so like, how I show up and how I turn up to work every day is going to inspire, or not, perhaps, the people around me. And then they have to then deliver to their clients that are around them.

[00:11:33] Katie Bell: And the clients will go with an experience and they will then impact their families. And their families will then impact the wider community. So we have this person in the centre. Actually, it’s our responsibility to get this shit it’s our responsibility, our duty. When you step up and decide you’re going to be a leader, it’s not hiding behind all this stuff and making excuses.

[00:11:54] Katie Bell: I see it as it’s your responsibility to get better at it, to be better, to learn the craft to really work on that. As your zone of genius, your excellence, where you really need to sit and what you really need to deliver. So that, because the impact that you then make is such. is so wide. It’s not just you and your team, it’s then think about that ripple effect, you drop that pebble in the pond and think about how far those ripples do drift.

[00:12:24] Katie Bell: But you’ve got to be able to, as you said, trust the people around you. And I think this is really crucial to, like what Nick said, Strategy, following a process to get people in, like deciding how, like how and who we need what is it that we need and when do we need them? How we hire them is a process.

[00:12:45] Katie Bell: How we onboard them is a process. How we lead them and show up to them is a process that we follow and we have to do that strategically and back that up with the mindset work because if you don’t do that, what happens is business owners have hired, it’s failed. And that’s when they come to work with us because they are knackered and they’re frustrated and it’s not work before.

[00:13:08] Katie Bell: And it’s not that they’re not great at what they do, it’s just that everything else, the infrastructure wasn’t around them to allow them to be great.

[00:13:15] Nichola: Yeah, absolutely. And I think people also bring their Philippa mentioned this as well, you bring your previous experiences into play. So if you’ve worked in an environment where you had, I’m going to swear now, you had a shit person managing you that’s going to bring that thing about, I don’t want to be like that person, but you don’t know what else to do.

[00:13:37] Nichola: And so your previous experiences of people who have led or managed you, will either lend well or not but also the thing of it with having a team and leading a team is that you have to learn these things just because you are an amazing physio or a fabulous studio instructor doesn’t mean to say that now you’ve got a business that you will just be able to lead and manage a team without some training in it, like collectively Between us three, I don’t know how many years and how much money we have invested in getting our skills and our mindset up to a level where we can hire the right people, where we can lead a team and we do know how to manage people and do know how to get the best from people.

[00:14:29] Nichola: It’s not something that you just read a book and then you’ve got it. And it’s not something that’s just naturally come naturally. easy to some people, especially if you’ve got a load of stuff in your mind that from previous experiences. So it, it’s a big deal. It’s great once you master it, but master it, it’s an ongoing process, right?

[00:14:51] Nichola: But it, there’s a lot of things involved in it.

[00:14:54] Nichola: Big subject.

[00:14:55] Katie Bell: So if we, yeah, there is so many things involved in it and I think it’s, as you said Nick, it’s something that you are always committed to improving and learning and being able to reflect on how well did that go? Why did it go well and what could I have done differently to help you be better moving forwards?

[00:15:13] Katie Bell: And I don’t always get it right. We all don’t always get it right, but it’s being vulnerable enough to say I messed up there. And this is why, and this is what I’m going to do moving forwards. So what mistakes, Philippa I’m going to come to you first, what mistakes do you see? being made when it comes to the team theme?

[00:15:33] Philippa: I think from a mindset point of view, it’s the I, the mindset of I need someone and I need them now and I’m just going to take whoever I can have, but I’m going to take whoever I think, and there’s two factors to this. We either see people they take, they choose the people who are the most qualified, But aren’t necessarily the best fit for the team because they think that the qualifications is the most important thing here.

[00:16:01] Philippa: And they think if they’re really qualified, then they’re going to be great at what they do. That’s going to be wonderful. Yeah. Or more recently, something that I’ve experienced is from a mindset point of view, is people taking the people that they think will be the most compliant. Which I found really interesting.

[00:16:19] Philippa: The people that are just going to not rock the boat. The people who are just going to be that, but aren’t necessarily going to. Because I think for me, there’s a two way street here, yeah. We stimulate each other as a team. You still have a leader, yes, and all of that. We, there’s a confusion that as a leader, you want to be surrounded by yes, people, rather than somebody who might actually be able to bring something else to the table and go, actually, no, I don’t think that or whatever it is.

[00:16:50] Philippa: And that is really interesting. And the mindset of, I’ve just got to have somebody and they’ve got to do, and if they’ll do, then that’s okay. Rather than taking time, there’s so much rush, rush that. I haven’t got time to think about it. Anybody will do. And then the mistake is they’ve got the wrong person in post, but they can’t get rid of them because they’re petrified of the knock on effect of the change that’s going to happen.

[00:17:18] Philippa: But also that they might have to have an uncomfortable conversation with somebody because they haven’t learned how to be a leader yet, because they didn’t think they needed to learn that. They just needed to show up, open their doors and people would come and then they’d get some, team and all of that.

[00:17:33] Philippa: And all of a sudden. They’re sitting there with two or three people in their business that they don’t like very much. You aren’t actually producing what they need to produce, aren’t being effective, and they’ve got no idea how to deal with it. And it starts to eat away at their confidence. Eat it actually for some eats away at their self-worth.

[00:17:52] Philippa: And then thinking, actually, I’m gonna knock this on the head. I don’t, I’ve got no idea how to make the most out of these people that I’ve got around me because I don’t know how to talk to them. I don’t know anything about who they are, how they tick, all of those sorts of things.

[00:18:07] Philippa: So there’s lots of different layers there, but for me it’s just the mindset, the main there, if you want to go with the main mistake, is that they rush into it and they don’t, Oh, this is what I’m going to go with. You think twice, cut once. Yes, which in DIY is, really important. You think twice, you cut once.

[00:18:28] Philippa: And as a great coach once told me, who may or may not be with us today, yeah, you hire slow and you fire fast, yes? But most people do it the wrong way round, and they hire fast. They fire slow because then I’ve got these people and I want everyone to like me and what if they don’t like me anymore and what if my clients leave and what if and what if and they just see the worst case scenario and catastrophize it rather than seeing the best case scenario of actually making those tweaks and standing up and stepping into their power and actually changing the story.

[00:19:08] Philippa: So that was a very long winded answer to one small question there. Okay.

[00:19:13] Katie Bell: It’s so unlike you, Philippa. But anyway we just moved swiftly on. Nick, have you got anything to add there? What? Because I know you’re desperate to throw the strategy in here.

[00:19:21] Nichola: Go on. From the higher slow and fire fast element that Phillip has just stolen from me.

[00:19:27] Nichola: I think the mistakes that from the strategy, the numbers. side of things is not having a growth plan, not identifying. I’m here. I want to be over here at point B. What do I need or who do I need that’s going to help me get there? And when I say who, I don’t mean as in, I don’t mean about personalities. What does the business require?

[00:19:56] Nichola: you to put in place in order for it to get to where you want to be. So oftentimes people will hire based on the people as opposed to the role that is required. So first and foremost you need to be able to look at what roles do I need and now What skills, what attributes, what experience do I ideally want for that role?

[00:20:21] Nichola: And I think the other mistake I see is people is not hiring against your core values. Or not even having core values. So core values is if you’re not familiar with that, it’s like the culture That you want to create, what you want people to feel, not just team, but anybody that comes into contact with your business.

[00:20:44] Nichola: Because you can teach a skill, you can give people experience as they go through the process, but what you can’t teach is a value. And this comes up when you, I’m sure people listening to this, I know we all can say the same, say yes to this. You may have worked with somebody or had somebody working for you who was good at their job, really well qualified, but ugh, there was just something, there was just something about that person that you either, you couldn’t quite put your finger on what it was, but technically they were sound, and that’s a values thing.

[00:21:21] Nichola: So if there’s a mismatch of that, good luck with that one because you can’t teach it. So for me, I did, I think a big one is in the first instance, is having those in place so that you hire against them. The skills and the experience, in my opinion come secondary to that. Obviously you need people that’ve got the relevant qualifications if they’re in a service delivery mode, but not over and above.

[00:21:46] Nichola: the values. And then in terms of planning that out, I would want to be able to think okay, if I’m clear about what my business needs, the role it needs, how much is that going to cost? Plot that in and to see once that person is in place, what would my return of revenue be? Potentially be if they were working to 80 percent capacity, for example, or they’d freed up my time or another team member’s time.

[00:22:16] Nichola: What could that now generate? And you thought, if you’ve got a tick in the box of all of that, great, go for it. You know you’ve got the right role, now you’ve just got to find the right person. That’s my take. What about yours, Katie? What’s yours?

[00:22:28] Katie Bell: I forgot what the question was. Oh yeah, mistakes!

[00:22:30] Nichola: Mistakes!

[00:22:32] Katie Bell: Um you, I was so into the conversation, I was like being coached by you then, Nick. But do you know what just came up for me then was like, there’s so many different layers to this, isn’t there?

[00:22:43] Katie Bell: And this is what I think is the biggest mistake is that we don’t fully recognize all of these layers.

[00:22:49] Katie Bell: They just think we need to just shove a job ad out there and then we’re going to get a great person who’s just going to fit beautifully and everything’s going to be, tra la off we go and we’ve got a high performing team member. But there’s so many things, but it doesn’t have to be overwhelming.

[00:23:06] Katie Bell: It doesn’t have to be frightening. It’s a, it’s, it is a very simple process. We call it the 12 step process in Thrive. We have it with it all. Our coaching programs and we teach them each bit that they need to do. It’s very simple and followed consistently means you are gonna have a great team around you.

[00:23:25] Nichola: Yeah, and I think the other mistake as well to jump in there is not allowing enough time for that team member when they first start. So there’s almost this assumption, I’ve found someone, they’re a great person, they turn up to day one and they’re almost like rabbit in headlights. No, I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing.

[00:23:44] Nichola: There, there’s no onboarding for them. And that’s when, what you don’t want is for that person, that new person to go home to their significant other, whoever. And they say, oh, how was your first day? And they go, it was alright. Or, I was just left to it. That is a horrendous experience for that person. What you want is for that person to come around and go, Oh my God, it was amazing.

[00:24:09] Nichola: They made me feel so welcome. I had, this was given to me. All of that. So that they feel like they are totally connected. Now you’ve made a great impression. Now that person is really going to work for you. If that first experience was a bit meh, or really they felt totally, thrown to the lions, that’s not going to last.

[00:24:33] Nichola: That is not going to last. I don’t think enough is thought out about that part of it as well. It doesn’t just stop because you’ve got the person in. You need to onboard them. And then you’re gonna, then you’re gonna, a little bit of time at the start is gonna pay dividend as you go through.

[00:24:53] Philippa: Agreed. And again, it’s the mindset of time though, isn’t it?

[00:24:57] Philippa: It’s the mindset of taking time, which is time and time again, what we’re seeing. It’s the mind it’s the having time to do the strategy, having time to do the numbers, having time to work on the mindset of it all and understand that as well is so important.

[00:25:13] Katie Bell: So with all of these layers, some people I look at and think you have a natural leadership style, you have a natural ability to be a great leader.

[00:25:23] Katie Bell: And some people I look at and think, holy cowbells, you need to really sort that shit out because you are a dreadful leader. I won’t get into British politics cause that will definitely take us off track. However, we only need to look at what we’re seeing there for a representation of how not to lead a country or a team.

[00:25:40] Katie Bell: But I won’t digress. What, Nicola, do you think, okay, let me ask this in a different way. What makes for you a great leader? And I want you to give examples for people if possible.

[00:25:53] Nichola: So a great leader needs to have the vision of the business and under

[00:25:58] Nichola: care about people. You can’t just play lip service to this. It will come across as incongruent if you do. It’ll be a mismatch. So you need to have a clear vision for where the business is going. To be able to get that vision across to somebody else who can then buy into it. Because then that makes things a lot easier.

[00:26:23] Nichola: There are so many skills as a leader on different levels, but one leader that had a massive impact on me in a very positive way over the years has to be Clayt Mask who was The CEO, possibly still is actually, of Infusionsoft, now Keap. So many years ago I had the great experience of going over to Phoenix and spending time at Infusionsoft, learning how to lead people.

[00:26:55] Nichola: And he was just The epitome of a leader and they walked the talk, everything that is in a textbook about a great leader, you could see it and we were able to speak to all of their 500 team members as we were there for a few days, and I never heard a bad word said about him in particular, or any of their leadership team, to be fair.

[00:27:20] Nichola: So those are the ones that really do stand out. Yeah. For me as exceptional leaders in, in that particular business. I think also Katie, I think you are a phenomenal leader. I knew you could say I would say that, but you are, because you are open to listening as well. You don’t just go this is the way it’s doing it.

[00:27:41] Nichola: You’re not just leading in terms of this is how we’re doing it. This is there. You are very open to. Hearing, as Philippa mentioned earlier on, things from a different perspective and that also makes a great leader because it’s not just your way. And you’re very happy to bring people in who have, like some people are afraid to bring in people who have skills that maybe that they don’t or more, it’s like you surround yourself with the people that have got a really great skill set.

[00:28:10] Nichola: To compliment your own. So I’ve got to give kudos to you for being a great leader too.

[00:28:16] Katie Bell: Thank you.

[00:28:17] Nichola: But

[00:28:18] Katie Bell: I, what I think is really important in what you just said then it was that I fully trust people from day one, like as a leader, I don’t, you don’t have to earn my trust. If you are a great fit in my business, because I have gone through the right hiring process and I know.

[00:28:33] Katie Bell: That role is going to be filled by the right person because I’ve done all of the tick box. I’ve gone through that nice process. Then we’re in straightaway. We’re trusting each other from day one because if you try and hold onto stuff and if you don’t fully trust that person, they feel it. They’re not empowered.

[00:28:53] Katie Bell: They don’t give you everything because you’re not giving them everything. So for me, as, it’s if we’re going to work together, we’re working together and we’re trusting each other from the get go.

[00:29:03] Nichola: Yeah, nice. For some

[00:29:06] Katie Bell: people though, that is huge. It’s huge. It’s huge. But you also have to look at what’s the worst that’s going to happen?

[00:29:11] Katie Bell: Because then you follow a firing process. You get people out quickly when they’re not performing in the way that you want them to, or something doesn’t align with you. Yeah. You press the eject button fast. You put the CV in the scanner, in the shredder, as I would say. But so for me, it’s the trust element, Nick, I think is really important.

[00:29:31] Katie Bell: And I think it’s recognizing that as a great leader, you don’t have to be responsible for doing great things. You just have to empower other people to do great things. Yes. And so I’m very clear about what I’m good at, and there’s not a whole list of things that I’m very good at and I’m fine about that, but I then know who it is that you need, and then you just leave them to do their thing.

[00:29:51] Nichola: There’s no room for having a massive ego if you’re trying to do anything. You leave your egos

[00:29:56] Philippa: at the door.

[00:29:58] Nichola: Yeah. One of Infusionsoft’s core values.

[00:30:02] Katie Bell: Yeah. I think she secretly fancied this guy, Philippa.

[00:30:05] Philippa: I think I’ve secretly somehow absorbed everything that she knows about him over the years, obviously.

[00:30:10] Philippa: Because she taught me that, you leave your egos at the

[00:30:12] Nichola: door. Ladies, stop mocking me. He was so inspirational. He was so inspirational. Anyway, whatever.

[00:30:21] Nichola: Play it if you’re listening, finally.

[00:30:23] Katie Bell: We love David Beckham. We think he’s a phenomenal leader. All these great, really handsome people.

[00:30:28] Philippa: No. It’s Reacher. It’s Reacher from the Amazon series. He’s a great leader. Oh, is he?

[00:30:34] Nichola: No.

[00:30:38] Nichola: We can’t just say, David, call, call me. Maybe we could, and we just did. Oh dear. Always worth a try.

[00:30:46] Katie Bell: Philippa, who what makes a great leader for you and give me an example.

[00:30:50] Philippa: So for me, somebody who is clear. Yes, there has to be clarity in the way that they deliver their information. Obviously, honesty, integrity, a certain level of vulnerability is also important.

[00:31:02] Philippa: I want someone who’s going to be able to say, Actually, I’ve copped that up. Yeah. But I reckon we can move forward this way, or, how can I remedy this, situation? Honesty, integrity, vulnerability, clarity is really important in terms, especially if you’re a high detail person, that is important for me as well, of like, where are we going with this?

[00:31:27] Philippa: The ability to connect with people on lots of different levels, to talk and be able to just be able to interact with people who have lots of different learning styles, who have lots of different personality styles, all of that’s important. Not that they have to do it all the time because obviously there will be people like business managers, practice managers who may be Team as well, but that’s important.

[00:31:52] Philippa: I think some, one of you said, and I can’t remember someone who listens, I think that is, is really important, like genuinely listens, so rather than it’s just, and then, oh, isn’t that sweet. And then moves on. Yeah. That’s really important. And you do that really well. Knowing your people is so important.

[00:32:10] Philippa: And I, mine is not a business. Mine is not a, like a. a business like Infusionsoft. Mine is, my inspiration is the guy that used to manage the waitrose that I worked at in my gap year. And I can’t remember my name, I remember his name for the life of me, but that was my first real experience of working in a reasonable setting.

[00:32:35] Philippa: He knew every single staff member’s name. He knew that I was there working in my gap year. He would ask how I was. He remembered loads of stuff. He was able to hold the, he was a great man and a great leader in that respect. He had an amazing team of different, like the grocery department, the wine department, they all said wonderful things about how he managed that waitrose shop.

[00:33:00] Philippa: Even me, who was stacking the toilet rolls and the dog food, yeah, which is what I did in part of my gap year. He knew all about when people worked, all of that sort of stuff. But he also was able to, he wasn’t this elusive person that no one ever saw. And he genuinely cared, he genuinely listened, and he was able to say if something went wrong, that we hold our hands up, we’ve got that wrong, but we reckon we can make it right this way.

[00:33:29] Philippa: And I, I always thought, and then the thing was, a part of me then thought, this is where the mindset thing comes in, that’s how every leader was going to be in any sort of business setting. And when a part of me realized they weren’t, that was a big wake up call. Yeah.

[00:33:47] Katie Bell: Yeah. And it’s funny how we’ve all had experience of great leadership and not so great leadership in our lives.

[00:33:55] Katie Bell: And a lot of what inspires me to be a great leader actually comes from seeing how not to do it. Oh yes. I think that, I actually think that great leaders there’s not loads of them. really great leaders. And so I can’t give you a list of all these inspirational leaders that have been a part of my life that’s made me be a great leader.

[00:34:16] Katie Bell: I, I have taken inspiration from how not to do it in a lot of ways. And I’m sure that’s the same for you too. Yeah,

[00:34:24] Nichola: definitely. For sure. And that, but that’s part of the light and shadow of it. Isn’t it? As well, being able to see that and then, and not letting the, those really rubbish leaders cloud your judgment.

[00:34:38] Nichola: And some people would say I don’t want to be a leader because that’s what you’ve got to be like or whatever else it is. There is another way and there is your way. There is your way. I think also, if you have to be able to find your feet because if you just try to, you can model people to a degree, but you’ve got to be authentic with it.

[00:34:55] Nichola: You’ve got to, and you’ve got to be okay with, like Philippa said, that vulnerability as well. I think that that’s huge actually, to be able to, not in a needy way, but just to show, and people think that, oh, they’re human too, okay. Just takes the pressure off other people. So yeah, so much to it.

[00:35:16] Katie Bell: So if you’re listening to this and you have a team and maybe you feel like a rubbish leader, maybe you feel like you’ve just realized all of these layers that you’ve got to think about and haven’t thought about, then it’s okay. There is nothing wrong with you. It doesn’t mean that you can’t go on to be a fabulous leader, but what it does mean is that.

[00:35:35] Katie Bell: You know what you know and you know what you don’t know, but there’s all this stuff out there that you don’t know you don’t know yet. And that’s what you your duty, your responsibility as a leader is to go and learn that stuff, to be a better person, to be constantly evolving. And the great news is we are here to help you.

[00:35:52] Katie Bell: What more do you want than us three on your team? Cause we are we are fully invested in you and and your teams. When you join one of our transformational coaching programs. So leadership takes a conscious effort to be better at. So if you want if you want to work on this, if you realize that this is a gap, then this is only the start of the conversation and content consumption is great.

[00:36:15] Katie Bell: But I would really urge you to take that next step and one of the ways that you can do that is to book a discovery call in with me, where we get on the phone together for half an hour and we really look strategically and what’s really easy for me to be able to do is look outside in at your business and be able to give you some really clear guidelines of perhaps how what’s going wrong or what’s missing and what you can do differently.

[00:36:40] Katie Bell: And most importantly, we will explain and explore with you how we can help you make that happen, how we can really encourage you and support you to build that world class team. You can get the link on the show notes, so please head there. I would love to chat. This is like what I absolutely love to do is to help people become better leaders.

[00:37:01] Katie Bell: Philippa, coming back to you, what do you think is the biggest change we see in our clients when they commit to evolving as a leader?

[00:37:11] Philippa: Confidence. The level of confidence as they step into their version. of leadership that truly is right for them. It’s like for me, so what I have in my head is I have a beautiful bud of a flower and I see them unfolding.

[00:37:29] Philippa: And that’s what we see, so that they can actually truly shine and lead the people around them. So it’s the confidence for me.

[00:37:36] Nichola: Nick, what about you? To build on that, because that’s obviously huge is the, you can see how they’ve now become empowered, that they, because of that confidence, they’re now like, Oh, okay, I can do this.

[00:37:50] Nichola: It empowers them to do more and then fall back in love. With their business for a lot of people, there’ve been a point where they’re like, Oh, it feels really heavy. But now all of a sudden, Oh, now I can do it now. I’m empowered to, to move on.

[00:38:07] Katie Bell: And I feel like it’s them taking back some control. If I think about some of the clients that there’s a few clients that are really standing out in my head and they’re going to be listening to this podcast, this episode.

[00:38:19] Katie Bell: So yes, it is you know who you are, but it’s that moment where they go, I have just felt yeah, absolutely. They are on this hamster wheel and they just feel like they are secondary. Like they’re not in control anymore. They don’t know how to do things. And they feel like. Pushed down by others around them and in their business and it’s just seeing as you’ve said Philippa, this like flourish, this bud really open and it’s about teaching them the how.

[00:38:47] Katie Bell: Like you’ve got to learn the how. Simple stuff. It’s not really complicated but it’s you’ve got to learn that stuff and that builds the confidence.

[00:38:56] Katie Bell: All of that. All of that and more. I think, I’m just going to put this out there because I’m allowed to, because I’m the leader, that I’d quite like to do this coach’s corner again ladies.

[00:39:08] Katie Bell: I have thoroughly enjoyed myself. I don’t really care whether you have or not. I have. I have loved it. We’re talking

[00:39:15] Nichola: about stuff

[00:39:16] Katie Bell: we

[00:39:16] Nichola: love, so why wouldn’t

[00:39:18] Katie Bell: we? Exactly. I hope for everybody listening to this, that you have gained loads from my fabulous team. I am so proud of them. So proud to say that they are my team.

[00:39:29] Katie Bell: Don’t forget to tune in next week. We are going to be seamlessly moving into spring cleaning in your business, because if you’re listening to this as the podcast episode drops, it is May and we are going to get down and dirty and do some spring cleaning in your business, especially when it comes to making more profit.

[00:39:46] Katie Bell: See you next


[00:39:48] Katie Bell: so much for listening to this show. Remember content consumption does not make changes, so commit to doing something from today’s episode. Maybe it’s taking action on what we talked about. Well, maybe it’s reaching out to me and learning more about our transformational coaching programs. Or if you have not yet, join our free Treat Your Business Facebook group, a free access to over 30 business masterclasses.

[00:40:09] Katie Bell: All of that is over at thrive businesscoaching. com or linked in the show notes. And the last favor I will ask, because social proof is endlessly important, is to leave a rating or review. I would love to know what you think of the show, how the show has been helpful for you. And I can’t wait to chat with you.

[00:40:26] Katie Bell: This is just the start of our conversation. Reach out so we can keep it going. Talk soon!

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